tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post1146144101489487266..comments2023-11-24T06:43:02.286+00:00Comments on Aspicientes in Jesum: Scouting for BoysPastor in Montehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-71739229284353893782008-09-26T06:25:00.000+01:002008-09-26T06:25:00.000+01:00Yes, in our own fashion we did maintain the hall —...Yes, in our own fashion we did maintain the hall —or rather hut—ourselves. It always looked as if it were about to fall down, but never did. Most remarkably, when I was ordained, I and all the other clergy vested there. It was a strange revisitation.Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-74219104560439231672008-09-26T03:31:00.000+01:002008-09-26T03:31:00.000+01:00Sean,You have brought back so many evocative memor...Sean,<BR/><BR/>You have brought back so many evocative memories of our time together in the mighty 10th Banstead. To this day I regard John "Skip" Clifford as one of the major influences in my life, for all the reasons you outline so eloquently. I wonder how many other blokes of our age know the correct height of a bicycle saddle, or the correct way to light a fire from scratch! And who could forget the infamous "CFE"s, (character forming experiences) which invariably followed major misdemeanous, were amusing without being cruel, never did lasting damage and above all invariably ensured improved behaviour. I certainly had my fair share of these.....<BR/><BR/>As you say, in this brave modern world, a single adult would never be permitted to take 30 or 40 boys out without an army of other "responsible adults" (and a lengthy Police check). It makes me feel very nostaligic for those more innocent times. <BR/><BR/>I'm pleased to say that here in Australia, although the scout movement has declined, shorts are still worn by scouts. In fact it was only recently that the khaki uniform has changed to a dark blue and green shirt, but the shorts remain. Both my sons have come through the scout movement, and have belonged to a local troop which decided some years ago to be for boys only. Of course these days the parents play a much more active role than in our day, accompanying weekend activities and camps, serving on intermninable committees, maintaining the hall (surely in our day the boys did that...), and participating in various fundraisers and barbecues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-49742824654561384422008-09-25T15:37:00.000+01:002008-09-25T15:37:00.000+01:00Fr Michael,Yes indeed, Chris and I were scouts the...Fr Michael,<BR/><BR/>Yes indeed, Chris and I were scouts there together. It was in Banstead, though, not Tadworth.Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-8023489421789927922008-09-25T15:14:00.000+01:002008-09-25T15:14:00.000+01:00Is this the same scout group at Tadworth where Chr...Is this the same scout group at Tadworth where Chris Long was also a member? I know he was at a tr aditional group as described. It did not hinder him anyway ..He is now headmaster of St Edmunds Ware.<BR/>He was a good friend of mine and nearly saved my life onceMichael Cliftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568515640292864739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-28312821203178188172008-09-25T02:51:00.000+01:002008-09-25T02:51:00.000+01:00Then let's shut the women out of reading and being...Then let's shut the women out of reading and being EMs maybe they should just swab down the church steps and sit in the back with their heads covered.<BR/><BR/>[We're talking about someone handing the priest a CRUET, for heaven's sake - NOT saying the Mass!!! do you really think Jesus gives a rip about that one? This attitude *precisely* reflects my reservations regards TLM crowd. Either it's going to be accessible to ALL or just the select few. Quite one thing not to allow what you don't know you have the *authority* to do -- i.e. we don't know that women can be ordained. But the functions reserved to the server are completely arbitrary and have ZIP to do with priesthood. Why forbid what doesn't have to be forbidden?<BR/><BR/>And if you feel that strongly about not letting women/girls do what was previously given to "minor orders" then you can count up the pennies and lock up too - because those were functions assigned to the porter. You guys can do ALL th3e scut work too if you really think the "right" genitalia is required for such tasks.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-74494864850787727562008-09-24T11:27:00.000+01:002008-09-24T11:27:00.000+01:00Dear Gemoftheocean, there is no equivalent offered...Dear Gemoftheocean, <BR/>there is no equivalent offered for girls as an alternative to the Sacrament of Holy Orders either, nor can there be. Having only boys and men serving at the liturgy is a clear sign that girls should not look to Holy Orders as a possible vocation. It may be one thing to tolerate women where there is a true pastoral need (whatever that means) and an absence of men and boys who can be shamed into doing their duty to assist the Church in her liturgical needs. But to encourage girls to serve risks inviting them to think that they might be called to Ordination one day. It also permits the perception that the Church may one day change her mind. I do wonder if those priests who permit altar girls actually think that one day women will be ordained, and even desire it, and hope to undermine the Church's teaching on exclusively ordaining men by undermining the Church's immemorial tradition of having servers drawn exclusively from men and boys. <BR/>If having servers at all is only about their "having fun", then best, perhaps, not to have servers at all. It is certainly not conducive to good liturgy to have sanctuaries full of servers of either sex if they are only there as decoration or as a statement of political correctitude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-14438973397376477862008-09-24T02:21:00.000+01:002008-09-24T02:21:00.000+01:00William, I'd disagree on the grounds that there is...William, I'd disagree on the grounds that there is NO equivalent for girls offered. There is nothing like serving Mass to get to know it intimately.<BR/><BR/>Now, for pastoral reasons, *some* boys and girls do better single sex for that, but if some boys are at an age where they do not mix well with girls, then a priest could make all boy or all girl teams for that. Why should the boys have all the fun?gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-10199882808506253072008-09-23T07:01:00.000+01:002008-09-23T07:01:00.000+01:00These arguments exactly parallel the wisdom of cho...These arguments exactly parallel the wisdom of choosing exclusively boys and men as altar servers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-54061396782400071162008-09-23T06:13:00.000+01:002008-09-23T06:13:00.000+01:00Oh, and you're not too old to be a scoutmaster. W...Oh, and you're not too old to be a scoutmaster. When I was growing up each Catholic school had multiple scout troops for the kids.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-74323049200153634872008-09-23T06:12:00.000+01:002008-09-23T06:12:00.000+01:00Fine organization. I loved my time in the Scouts....Fine organization. I loved my time in the Scouts. That fuzzy wuzzy "serve Europe" concept seems a bit off though. PC has very much crept in to too much of life. Here in the US the Boy Scouts are under a constant barrage from the atheists. Here the boy scouts still insist on a belief in God and they are constantly under attack. I'd agree that overall scouts are better served overall by separating the sexes given for the reasons you list. Have you ever had occasion to read an original boy scout manual? Here in the US in the early 80s they did a reprint of the original handbook - a real eye opener. For the original (1910 - heavily modeled after the British original) if memory serves one had to be able to build a log cabin, and spent zillions of more hours under canvass than is currently required. [They also had a plumbing badge too!] It gave advice such as how to kill a mad dog [a good swift kick under the chin!] all manner of things. The usual knots etc.<BR/><BR/>I know I learned how to do a hangman's knot in the scouts! [I'm betting the PC types long ago snuffed out that particular knot from the pages of the Girl Scout handbooks!] We learned how to read a compass and all sorts of cool things. An uncle of mine was a boy scout master for a long time, and I think my cousin, his son, is also a scoutmaster himself now.<BR/><BR/>Here in the US Norman Rockwell, among many other wonderful paintings he did, often painted commissioned pictures with Scouting featured. There is a <A HREF="http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/BoyScouts.htm" REL="nofollow">fine website here</A> where you can see a lot of his illustrations he'd done for the scouts.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-84656197885350134182008-09-22T21:42:00.000+01:002008-09-22T21:42:00.000+01:00Thanks for a wonderful blog. Brought back many mem...Thanks for a wonderful blog. Brought back many memories for me. Longer ago than I care to admit, many if not most Catholic parishes boasted their own Catholic Scout troop. I doubt that this is the case now. Like many excellent organisations I suspect the Scouting movement has been choked by 'political correctness', 'health and safety regulations', and 'human rights', not to mention the liberal, humanist, and downright atheist agenda promoted by our Governmental agencies. Congratulations to French scouting for promoting and maintaininmg the highest Christian principals.umblepiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455889107917179909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-44586633494389767882008-09-22T16:13:00.000+01:002008-09-22T16:13:00.000+01:00They make the BOY scouts accept girls now? That's...They make the BOY scouts accept girls now? That's just stupid.<BR/><BR/>I was a Girl Scout here in the States and it was wonderful. Two weeks of sleep away camp, lots of time horseback riding and canoeing and sailing. I had leaders who I will always remember fondly.<BR/><BR/>There are great advantages to gender separation in activities like this. For girls it is a change to go out and be active and be leaders without worrying 'what will the boys think'. Co-ed scouts ruins that.Mary Marthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00719610017317232480noreply@blogger.com