tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post3067560388022752301..comments2023-11-24T06:43:02.286+00:00Comments on Aspicientes in Jesum: God and Country - a homily from a few years agoPastor in Montehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-17964266995745487452008-06-27T09:11:00.000+01:002008-06-27T09:11:00.000+01:00"So it would be idolatry to fight for one's countr..."So it would be idolatry to fight for one's country or fight for another's for a rightful cause?"<BR/><BR/>Old believer, please note that teh expression used was ULTIMATE loyalty.<BR/><BR/>Such a loyalty cannot even be given to the pope, let alone one's country.<BR/><BR/>One's ultimate loyalty is given to God, and, as His mystical body, the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-60416731985740512902008-06-26T04:52:00.000+01:002008-06-26T04:52:00.000+01:00I am surprised, in a blog that is noted for its co...I am surprised, in a blog that is noted for its conservatism, to find this sudden outbreak of liberal nonsense!<BR/><BR/>Father, when you write: "And, of course, true patriotism is not about doing whatever the fallible human authorities at the top of the heap order, but about doing whatever is best for one’s country, as far as one can assess.", you are 100% correct. Why, then, have you assumed that this hymn (I vow to thee...) is about vowing some sort of unthinking service to the government or other rulers? It is not! It is about vowing love and service to the country itself (which might, quite legitimately at times, mean opposing the government, rather like the brave Germans who opposed the rise of the Third Reich in the early and mid 1930s, for example).<BR/><BR/>Not only is the first verse a beautiful expression of love expressed towards the nation which God has so graciously created, formed, and guided for us, but the second verse is (as the author intended) an even more beautiful reminder of the far greater glories of the kingdom of heaven. We are supposed to be caught up in the patriotism (properly speaking) of the first verse, rather as a child winds the motor of a toy car by pulling it backwards on the carpet a few times, before being released into the second verse which carries us forward into an expression of the surmounting and insurmountable joys of the Christian hope in life eternal with God in heaven.<BR/><BR/>Do please reconsider your opposition to this wonderful hymn - I fear you are misunderstanding it, and consequently missing out! (Incidentally, we sang it as the entrance hymn at my first mass many years ago, and I propose singing it again at my silver jubilee, which is now uncomfortably close).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-58938313473091237472008-06-25T14:49:00.000+01:002008-06-25T14:49:00.000+01:00Anonymous (24 June 09:53)said... " 'But surely at ...Anonymous (24 June 09:53)said... <BR/>" 'But surely at a fundamental level one must have an ultimate loyalty to one's country such as in time of war or, perhaps more pertinently, times of terrorist attack?'<BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>It's idolatry."<BR/><BR/>So it would be idolatry to fight for one's country or fight for another's for a rightful cause? I wonder about all the slain Irish Catholic soldiers who volunteered to fight alongside (mainly) Protestant British troops in the World Wars would make of this sort of thinking?<BR/><BR/>Lack of loyalty, or perceived lack of loyalty has tainted the Catholic cause in this land for centuries. <BR/><BR/>How refreshing that the recent High Mass in Winchester Cathedral (see the 'Fr Z' blog for details' ended with the antiphon and prayer for our Gracious Sovereign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-11571427352349328242008-06-24T17:25:00.000+01:002008-06-24T17:25:00.000+01:00It can be done by capitalising the 'T' of 'thee' t...It can be done by capitalising the 'T' of 'thee' to deify the word and by keeping the comma after 'Thee'. Thus we now get 'I vow to Thee, my country, all earthly things above'. <BR/><BR/>This way you can use the same words and have a hymn addressing God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-60837886411149311372008-06-24T09:53:00.000+01:002008-06-24T09:53:00.000+01:00"But surely at a fundamental level one must have a..."But surely at a fundamental level one must have an ultimate loyalty to one's country such as in time of war or, perhaps more pertinently, times of terrorist attack?"<BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>It's idolatry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-31513362351652824072008-06-23T12:07:00.000+01:002008-06-23T12:07:00.000+01:00But surely at a fundamental level one must have an...But surely at a fundamental level one must have an ultimate loyalty to one's country such as in time of war or, perhaps more pertinently, times of terrorist attack?<BR/><BR/>The Islamic terrorists no doubt felt they were obeying God first when they carried out the London Tube bombings. Did the IRA in the 1970s believe they were following Catholic teaching by killing innocent subjects of the Queen?<BR/><BR/>I believe one can follow God first and still have loyalty to one's country.<BR/><BR/>What I find distasteful is that only a handful of Catholic churches in England have prayers for HM the Queen on Sundays namely the Oratories, Farm Street and St. Etheldreda. In contrast the Orthodox churches name our Sovereign Lady in either the litanies or at the Great Entrance or both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-74447667373586918362008-06-23T10:56:00.000+01:002008-06-23T10:56:00.000+01:00Hi, Can I draw your attention to the new website o...Hi, <BR/><BR/>Can I draw your attention to the new website of the publishers, The Catholic Truth Society (CTS). <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cts-online.org.uk/" REL="nofollow">www.cts-online.org.uk</A><BR/><BR/>It’s got some downloadable publications on it, plus it’s got a great range of Catholic books, including biographies of saints and prominent Catholics.<BR/><BR/>We’d appreciate if you could review it in your blog, Valle Adurni. <BR/><BR/>Thanks, Sophie (CTS)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-59447829814795327492008-06-22T17:22:00.000+01:002008-06-22T17:22:00.000+01:00oops, sorry that should have been.oops, sorry that should have <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yda2wajC0U" REL="nofollow">been</A>.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-83782944774082226272008-06-22T10:59:00.000+01:002008-06-22T10:59:00.000+01:00The tune Jerusalem is ethereally beautiful. But i...The tune Jerusalem is ethereally beautiful. But instead of the original Blake words at Ronald Reagan's funeral they used the following words:<BR/><BR/>"O love of God, how strong and true, <BR/>Eternal and yet ever new; Uncomprehended and unbought, <BR/>Beyond all knowledge and all thought! <BR/><BR/>O love of God, how deep and great, Far deeper than man’s deepest hate; Self-fed, self-kindled like the light, Changeless, eternal, infinite.<BR/><BR/>O heavenly love, how precious still, <BR/>In days of weariness and ill, <BR/>In nights of pain and helplessness, To heal, to comfort, and to bless!<BR/><BR/>O wide-embracing, wondrous love! <BR/>We read you in the sky above, <BR/>We read you in the earth below, <BR/>In seas that swell and streams that flow.<BR/><BR/>We read you best in Him who came <BR/>To bear for us the cross of shame; Sent by the Father from on high, Our life to live, our death to die.<BR/><BR/> We read your power to bless and save, <BR/>E’en in the darkness of the grave; Still more in resurrection light <BR/>We read the fullness of your might.<BR/><BR/>O love of God, our shield and stay Through all the perils of our way! Eternal love, in you we rest Forever safe, forever blest. <BR/><BR/>We will exalt you, God and King, and we will ever praise your name; We will extol you every day, and evermore your praise proclaim.<BR/>==<BR/>I'd not heard that song before but I found it especially moving and apt. You can see the video clip <A HREF- HREF="" REL="nofollow" HTTP://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=4YDA2WAJC0U&NR=1>here</A>.gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-65679203680940031362008-06-22T09:29:00.000+01:002008-06-22T09:29:00.000+01:00"It took the trials at Nuremberg to establish firm..."It took the trials at Nuremberg to establish firmly in the mind of governments and people that there is a natural law which is written on men's hearts, and which takes precedence over any earthly authority. If they did not know, then they should have known that what they did was evil."<BR/><BR/>Thinking people have had enough of this sick fraud. The accounts of the alleged "eyewitnesses" such as Elie Wiesel deserve to be categorised as insane fairytales.<BR/><BR/>If you want a reliable eyewitness, look at Paul Rassinier, a Jew, a socialist, and an enemy of Nazism, but who didn't invent lies to benefit his ethnic tribe and justify the crimes that underlay the birth of Israel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-41799268076873540942008-06-22T08:49:00.000+01:002008-06-22T08:49:00.000+01:00Father: when I was one of the chaplains at that la...Father: when I was one of the chaplains at that large school on the hill overlooking Shoreham, we used to sing that hymn with the words 'I vow to thee, Lord Jesus ...'<BR/>Thanks for your kind words about my blog 'Father Hunwicke's Liturgical Notes'. On reflection, I do agree with the point you made about my piece on the Westminster mass.<BR/>What a shame we didn't overlap in Sussex. I would have loved to make your acquaintance. <BR/>John HunwickeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-71193932141825559622008-06-21T18:46:00.000+01:002008-06-21T18:46:00.000+01:00Thanks: the boys looked a little crestfallen, but ...Thanks: the boys looked a little crestfallen, but chose something else happily enough. And there was no comment from the parents — I think that they were simply happy to have their sons confirmed. Having the then bishop of the forces, the splendid Francis Walmsley do the job scotched any notion that we were unpatriotic!<BR/>As for Jerusalem; well, that hymn is simply odd. A former boss of mine, Fr Tony Churchill, made the observation that it's a hymn whose first verse poses a series of questions, the answer to every one of which is 'no'.<BR/><BR/>And did those feet in ancient time walk upon England's mountains green?<BR/>Answer: NO!<BR/>And was the holy Lamb of God on England's pleasant pastures seen?<BR/>Answer: NO!<BR/>And did the countenance divine shine upon these clouded hills?<BR/>Answer: NO!<BR/>And was Jerusalem builded here among these dark satanic mills?<BR/>Answer: NO!Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-86275580322790204342008-06-21T18:30:00.000+01:002008-06-21T18:30:00.000+01:00Father, I agree with you 100%. But how did the boy...Father, I agree with you 100%. But how did the boys react and did you have any " feedback" from the parents?<BR/><BR/>We recently sang Blake's Jerusalem at Mass and though Parry's tune makes the hairs on my arms stand on end, I felt uncomfortable with the words. They are very powerful as mystical poetry, but they are not a Hymn to Almighty God.<BR/><BR/>And, btw, that was a courageous sermon. Well done!the houndhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06058635987536810157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-56610232456037826002008-06-21T15:27:00.000+01:002008-06-21T15:27:00.000+01:00Thank you for this Father - I quite agree and thi...Thank you for this Father - I quite agree and think you have put it very well. If you take the first verse and substitute the word God, or Jesus, or even [Catholic] Church, for 'country', then the words are entirely appropriate [though the thing mostly wouldn't scan]. I remember making a similar point somewhere about popular love songs, some of the words of which are, if not always blasphemous, then often inappropriate - unless we direct them towards God. Disordered rather than sinful, perhaps. I seem to remember I had in mind a certain song from the film of Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, called Everything I Do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com