tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post5943460964525258975..comments2023-11-24T06:43:02.286+00:00Comments on Aspicientes in Jesum: Friday Abstinence againPastor in Montehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-23140201750776510072012-01-11T17:15:41.447+00:002012-01-11T17:15:41.447+00:00I was amused at your comment regarding the speed w...I was amused at your comment regarding the speed with which priest and congregation motored through Mass. In Ireland about seven years ago, I was staying in a parish where the rosary was said after morning Mass each day. Struck by the speed with which it was recited, I decided to time it: it took (including the introductory prayers but not including prayers after the <i>Salve Regina</i>) seven and a half minutes. If there were a saying-the-rosary event in the Olympics, those parishioners would definitely have been contenders.Sue Simshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15868265477624790008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-43617630588183479582012-01-10T22:13:40.847+00:002012-01-10T22:13:40.847+00:00Oooh, is "Bovril" a condiment, when spre...Oooh, is "Bovril" a condiment, when spread thinly in a cheese sandwich??? My 13 yr old son would be soooo pleased if it is! ;-)Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02048524492096683442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-36610405777154223772012-01-10T07:59:18.122+00:002012-01-10T07:59:18.122+00:00At the risk of digression, my favourite " tra...At the risk of digression, my favourite " traveller's dispensation" story comes from a lunch I attended many years ago in Singapore during the fasting month of Ramadan. One of the guests, a very convivial Muslim genteleman who had just arrived from neighboring Malaysia, announced that he was on a traveller's dispensation and proceeded to order a very large Pre-prandial Whisky soda. The rest of us were too polite to ask whether the dispensation was really intended to include " haram" items like alcohol.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-55094562626714534362012-01-09T20:01:35.773+00:002012-01-09T20:01:35.773+00:00An Unreconstructed Ossified Manualist had this on ...An Unreconstructed Ossified Manualist had this on his blog, covering also the question of Friday fish and chips cooked in lard or dripping.<br /><br />(from WDTPRS)<br /><br />Prümmer says,<br /><br /> “The law of abstinence forbids eating meat and broth from meat, but not eggs, milk products, and also whatsoever condiments from the fat of animals.”<br /><br />Sabetti-Barrett says:<br /><br /> “QUAER. 2. Quid dicendum de usu laridi?<br /><br /> Resp. Certum est non licere illud edere per frustra…<br /><br /> What is to be said about the use of lard?<br /><br /> Resp. It is clear that it is not permitted to eat it groundlessly and for an accompaniment with bread, because it is considered meat. It is permitted to use it even in evening snacks (refectiuncula), either as a condiment or in order to cook foods, provided that beforehand it will have been liquified. …<br /><br />But wait! There’s more!<br /><br />Paul VI’s Poenitemini says:<br /><br /> “The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat. The law of fasting allows only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit taking some food in the morning and evening, observing–as far as quantity and quality are concerned–approved local custom.”<br /><br />The language of “condiments” has remained.<br /><br />Therefore, you can cook your fish in beef fat. Use of fat from beef would not violate your abstinence from meat.motupropriohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06261356560114077508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-62905184337088697012012-01-09T14:44:08.711+00:002012-01-09T14:44:08.711+00:0090-95% is certainly an extremely impressive figure...90-95% is certainly an extremely impressive figure, sadly it is very exceptional. In my part of rural Ireland, Mass attendance has plummeted in the last 10 years. The sex scandals are a small but significant factor. I suspect the newspaper polls on this topic are hugely over-inflated; people tend to exaggerate their attendance at Church. The situation is particularly desperate among the youth. As a university student, I would estimate that about 5% (at most) of my peers practice their religion. Catholicism in Ireland is but a skeleton of its former self; what remains is largely decorated ruins. In 20 years time the Irish Church will be invisible and Irish priests will be as common as Tasmanian aborginals. The hierarchy do not realize how serious the situation is.Shanehttp://lxoa.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-47758886948409661802012-01-09T11:39:13.267+00:002012-01-09T11:39:13.267+00:00This is all fine in a Catholic culture, and I take...This is all fine in a Catholic culture, and I take the bishops' point about Catholic identity in a secular one, but I also dislike causing non-Catholic hosts undue inconvenience (also Amanda's problem - seems dreadful to throw away a good steak!). Can one not bring some common sense to bear according to the circumstances, guided always by charity? I always tell people that I'm a Friday vegetarian (can't eat fish), but sometimes they simply forget, and it then seems ungracious and uncharitable not to eat what they provide. <br /><br />I too went to Ireland last week, and told my hosts about the restrictions in England and Wales. They just said it didn't apply in Ireland and provided a most delicious meal – the enjoyment of which was spoilt slightly by feelings of guilt!Deliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383433319373651830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-47645808010421590972012-01-09T10:06:51.256+00:002012-01-09T10:06:51.256+00:00In this particular corner; I'm well aware that...In this particular corner; I'm well aware that things can be very different elsewhere, especially in cities.Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-52598725417397406412012-01-09T09:36:15.642+00:002012-01-09T09:36:15.642+00:00Mass attendance is still about 90-95%
What?!!!<i>Mass attendance is still about 90-95%</i><br /><br />What?!!!Shanehttp://lxoa.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-46670182418049288352012-01-08T20:56:06.741+00:002012-01-08T20:56:06.741+00:00I notice that the LMS Chairman's site mentions...I notice that the LMS Chairman's site mentions the Epiphany abstinence day this year so it looks as though we were corect in thinking that it was still a day of abstinence even if we did attend a TLM Mass for Epiphany on the day.<br /><br />I agree with Amanda that occasionally one finds in the fridge some meat left over which won't last until Saturday. Quite a dilemma for someone on their own - does one throw away or eat on Friday? This has happened a few times as I tend to forget what day it is sometimes! But taking Friday into consideration has made me more careful about planning what to eat so this does not happen.pelerinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-43202388472623380382012-01-08T20:14:07.761+00:002012-01-08T20:14:07.761+00:00Living in Scotland I come to this matter from the ...Living in Scotland I come to this matter from the opposite angle: am I bound by the rule of Friday abstinence when in England. (As somebody else said, when in Rome do as Rome does.) I consulted an English priest who gave me the opinion that I am bound by the rules of the Scottish Bishops wherever I am and am not, therefore, bound to abstinence when in England. Which rather suggests that those of you in England are required to abstain from meat on Fridays wherever you are, does it not?Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-31583174223860072302012-01-08T15:15:14.721+00:002012-01-08T15:15:14.721+00:00Father, am I right in thinking that the Bishops re...Father, am I right in thinking that the Bishops re-instatement of Friday abstinence does not state that to eat meat on Friday is a matter of sin. On reflection, I believe that my eating of a few slices of salami was disobedient.<br /><br />However, I'd like to know whether in eating meat on a Friday, in the eyes of the Bishops, I have committed a sin and whether that sin is mortal or venial.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-72712232168331489502012-01-08T12:23:09.589+00:002012-01-08T12:23:09.589+00:00Another situation that causes me grief is the (rar...Another situation that causes me grief is the (rare) occasion when you know that the leftovers of a meat meal, made earlier in the week, just won't make it to Saturday. You then have the dilemma of either eating them Friday or throwing away good food....Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02048524492096683442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-75200599624184616982012-01-08T11:45:28.416+00:002012-01-08T11:45:28.416+00:00Two things are clear:
1) When abroad you follow t...Two things are clear:<br /><br />1) When abroad you follow the calendar of the local church. (That's the origin of the saying "When in Rome do as the Romans") In Ireland you celebrate the Epiphany on 6th January so are dispensed on that day from an act of penance. (It's a Solemnity). You can choose a different form of penance for other Fridays when you are in Ireland.<br /><br />2) The law of charity is more important than any other so if to refuse meat would cause offence or upset to your host you should eat it. (That would have been the case for your Uncle if point one had not applied).<br /><br />In the old days when Friday abstinence was routinely practiced people understood these things better.<br /><br />Had you been visiting someone in England (or Wales) on Friday you should have eaten the chicken and remembered next time to forewarn them.Part Time Pilgrimhttp://www.minipilgrim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-68558923599814114792012-01-08T10:23:11.148+00:002012-01-08T10:23:11.148+00:00I wish the Bishops ahd been more explicit re. abst...I wish the Bishops ahd been more explicit re. abstinence. What about vegetable soups which MAY be based on a meat stock?<br />And when abroad and ignorant of the practice of the local diocese (or even which diocese we are in)do we have to follow home practice or can we assume that abstinence is not required outside England and Wales? My questions are legal rather than moral.vetusta ecclesiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454059029260192711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-50693412826114780862012-01-08T08:40:19.096+00:002012-01-08T08:40:19.096+00:00I understand your concern for your hosts at a meal...I understand your concern for your hosts at a meal which they have prepared for you, but to forgo meat on such occasions is a great witness, without which all we are left with is a private penance reminiscent of a private devotion? Personally, having forewarned my host that I would not be able to eat meat, I have found them most accommodating and somewhat impressed by fidelity to the penance.English Pastornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-36961368196647657842012-01-08T08:22:11.068+00:002012-01-08T08:22:11.068+00:00Thanks for the good news in this post Father. It a...Thanks for the good news in this post Father. It agrees with what my mother-in law tells me about Dublin, where long lines for Confession are quite normal as well.<br /><br />A happy and holy New Year to you.<br /><br />p.s. We celebrated the Epiphany on Friday and had a non-catholic guest at supper so had abstained on Thursday!Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00419516065899508757noreply@blogger.com