tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post1018784978994770433..comments2023-11-24T06:43:02.286+00:00Comments on Aspicientes in Jesum: Shepherds and SpatsPastor in Montehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-11036590797445302652012-08-17T11:57:41.127+01:002012-08-17T11:57:41.127+01:00I agree with Father Ray that the problem stems fro...I agree with Father Ray that the problem stems from 'no shared theology or concept of the liturgy and no agreed vision of the Church and her mission.'<br /><br />Surely, if everybody was pulling in the right/same direction there would be less need to sit around and talk about things and a greater desire to get on and do things?<br /><br />Therefore, the big problem seems to me to be the 'how' of getting the Church functioning as it should. It has to be education (or re-education), but again, the question of 'how' remains.<br /><br />Richard Collins at Linen on the Hedgerow has blogged frequently recently about the need for a brick by brick approach to re-educate the Church, mooting the establishment of a confraternity or some such body, probably primarily of lay faithful to kickstart as it were, using a bottom-up approach, even putting pressure on bishops to defend the faith and the teaching of the Church. [details are still vague and apologies to Richard if I have misrepresented his views]. <br /><br />It seems to me that this approach could exacerbate the problem, not only of education but of the lay meddling and possibly causing yet more meetings IF that is it is not very solidly rooted in the Magisterial teaching of the Church.<br /><br />It seems to me that the KEY is for orthodoxy in belief and heroic fidelity to the teaching of the Church. If such an organisation can demonstrate this, then a priest would be able not only to support the group but also to let them get on with it to a certain extent.<br /><br />Perhaps, i can use as an example the choir at St. Mary Magdalen. I am not aware that Father Ray had much input, but (assuming i am right in this assumption, and apologies to Father if i am not) he did not need to because they are assiduously and professionally led and the fruit is there for all to see, or hear, even.<br /><br />Is it not a case, in the final analysis that the Church simply needs to disencumber itself from all the liberal wishy-washy rubbish that has dragged it down this low in the last 50 years? <br /><br />If so what will we be left with? A smaller, stronger Church that understands its mission, and the role of all the members of its body at the level of the individual, the parish, the diocese and worldwide?Malvenuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03400254883645309815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-85057362015277904402012-08-15T16:34:35.910+01:002012-08-15T16:34:35.910+01:00GOR, my employer is grappling with this right now....GOR, my employer is grappling with this right now. I'm in the "anti-meeting" camp and throwing my weight around.<br /><br />It will, eventually, cost me my job but I refuse to kowtow to the unproductive.Flambeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133131881423202010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-30354620994380532552012-08-15T10:19:11.850+01:002012-08-15T10:19:11.850+01:00I echo what Fr. Blake said – and it was true in th...I echo what Fr. Blake said – and it was true in the business world when I was still gainfully employed! Some people’s lives were defined by meetings. If their calendars were not filled with meetings, they felt they were not accomplishing anything. Of course the opposite was true – because of the plethora of time-wasting meetings they weren’t getting anything done.<br /><br />Much like the effectiveness of homilies, less is more. Meetings should be brief, to the point …and rare! I once wasted three hours of my life in a meeting of high-level executives obsessing over the wording of a “Mission Statement” for the company.<br /><br />The old advertising mantra of Nike comes to mind: “Just do it!”GORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14313101159848740722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-56450478316988355542012-08-14T12:27:26.859+01:002012-08-14T12:27:26.859+01:00Father,
The problem is exacerbation when there is ...Father,<br />The problem is exacerbation when there is no agreed basal point; no shared theology or concept of the liturgy and no agreed vision of the Church and her mission.<br /><br />In amalgamated parishes that have often defined themselves in contradistinction to their neighbours the problems are worst, especially if the priest feels that he has to represent the teaching of the Church as well as the silent voice of those who would never dream of standing up at a public meeting.<br /><br /><br />The problem I have found is that there are people who want to talk and people who want to do. The talkers tend to want to make work for the doers and the doers tend to just want to get on with what they are doing.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-30470091156479038572012-08-14T11:40:01.994+01:002012-08-14T11:40:01.994+01:00Fr
I'd love to blether to you , but, after su...Fr <br />I'd love to blether to you , but, after such spats and bad feeling lay people ought to re appreciate one (resented)expeditious and traditional catholic way of doing things, from furniture-heaving to visiting the sick:<br />PP:." (task description) Volunteers, you , you, and you."<br />Full stop.<br />And confess your resentment next confession!Mike Cliffsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06405021835510775527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-31541046046647060892012-08-14T06:59:50.033+01:002012-08-14T06:59:50.033+01:00Fr Tony is a fantastic mentor and has been so help...Fr Tony is a fantastic mentor and has been so helpful to me. During a stressful time in my life he told me "be gentle with yourself" and I think he might well tell you the same. No need to approve this comment -- I am praying for you and will continue to do so. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-85757481058804105782012-08-13T23:09:55.046+01:002012-08-13T23:09:55.046+01:00I think that the problem is that some of the Laity...I think that the problem is that some of the Laity a vocal,bossy minority think everything is their domain.They want the Priest to turn up to say the Mass but they complain if he says the black and does the red according to the rubrics.They want the Mass their way,no latin chant or anything else that resembles traditional Catholic worship.Boring hymns more at home in a protestant chapel than a Catholic Church are driving away the silent majority in parishes.petty complaints to clergy because a crucifix is now on the altar or the communion plate is reintroduced,and please no incense thats from a previouse time These groups of otherwise charming people take over Parish life and commitees and dictate to everyone else how things should be done no notice taken of the Popes wishes regarding the Liturgy.Until the silent majority of parishioners stand up to these people and back their clergy things will never change.MC Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14950845400638779751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-37251143705580714102012-08-13T18:00:58.500+01:002012-08-13T18:00:58.500+01:00"Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God ...<b>"Receive the power to offer sacrifice to God and to celebrate Mass, both for the living and the dead in the name of Our Lord."</b><br /><br />That priests are not permitted to do this because they are saddled with administrativa often, at least in the United States having parishes that rival the population of some diocese, is a shame and a scandal.<br /><br />So focused on the world have the People of God and their Shepherds become that the essential, permanent things are neglected.<br /><br />I know I don't have a solution so I pray the Good Lord will furnish one to the sheep of his pasture in due time.Flambeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133131881423202010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-78504029276729388402012-08-13T17:56:36.928+01:002012-08-13T17:56:36.928+01:00A very good piece making an important point.A very good piece making an important point.Tom Piataknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-58838094739567588552012-08-13T14:41:26.289+01:002012-08-13T14:41:26.289+01:00I think you are right. The priest has to concentr...I think you are right. The priest has to concentrate on doing things only the priest can do -- so that would have to be administering the sacraments as duty one.<br /><br />A good community will be built or maintained if it has a good foundation on the sacramental life. 'All' the priest has to do is keep warring factions apart if he sees backbiting. No small task, true - I expect this sort of diplomacy is best picked up on the job and learned by war stories from other priests.<br /><br />I guess the main thing is to find good people and delegate or get help on the things that tend to kill priests off. I've witnessed many a priest floored by building projects and fund raising. Every diocese should have lay experts to call upon for the building projects, and the people of each parish should be the ones to do all the scut work of fund raising -- carrying out the details anyway.<br /><br />In my relatively short time at St. Anne's in San Diego, I was very impressed by the Fraternity of St. Peter's clergy. Quite young but very energetic and the right touch as to what they expected the laity to pitch in with, and what was their own domain. gemoftheoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05521207668262592414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-59305972652757526532012-08-13T14:37:40.208+01:002012-08-13T14:37:40.208+01:00Couldn't agree more, Father. Holy, prayerful ...Couldn't agree more, Father. Holy, prayerful priests are what we need. Anyway, isn't the apostleship of the laity supposed to be in the word? Well, a right old mess we've made of that. You don't want us muscling into the parish as well!Deliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383433319373651830noreply@blogger.com