tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post3909629826034534986..comments2023-11-24T06:43:02.286+00:00Comments on Aspicientes in Jesum: Il faut que la France survive 2Pastor in Montehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-1390229996256424382011-09-19T14:27:19.395+01:002011-09-19T14:27:19.395+01:00Father,
I'm enjoying this very much. You shoul...Father,<br />I'm enjoying this very much. You should provide links to these posts so your readers can peruse them all in order, or link to them all in one place.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205862627682998184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-46720777381440277912011-08-27T23:37:33.015+01:002011-08-27T23:37:33.015+01:00I'll present your greetings, Father!
I hope yo...I'll present your greetings, Father!<br />I hope you'll grace us with another visit some day.bedwerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339741971886945010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-21276225697237131842011-08-26T17:39:15.485+01:002011-08-26T17:39:15.485+01:00Evagrius: quite!
I've never really understood...Evagrius: quite! <br />I've never really understood how Constantinople can cavil at Papal titles, and yet call their patriarchs 'Ecumenical Patriarch', a title misunderstood as being 'nice and friendly reconciling unifying Patriarch', when it actually means 'Patriarch of the Ecumene', of the known world, or at least entire empire.<br />No, my point was to try and show that the 'victory' in the wars of religion was really, if a victory, a pyrrhic one. It did too much harm.Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-55760633782664923212011-08-26T16:53:24.936+01:002011-08-26T16:53:24.936+01:00Fr.,
Did Catholicism triumph in the wars of relig...Fr.,<br /><br /><i>Did</i> Catholicism triumph in the wars of religion? We lost the Faithful in huge swathes of northern Europe and in 500 years failed uniformly to recover them. I would argue that in this sense, the Tridentine period was a dismal failure, and that its failures contained many of the seeds that sprung up in the aftermath of Vatican II.<br /><br />On Eastern Orthodoxy: sometimes they object to Frankish elements, sometimes to elements of Greek philosophy. You can't win: the basis is objection, not what is being objected-to.<br /><br />As for the P of C, I think Fr.'s explanation is good; though it must be pointed out that for all the objections to the Papal styles, no-one in the East bats an eyelid at the (absurdly over-the-top) stylings and claims of the Patriarch of Alexandria, for example ("The 13th Apostle", and "Arbitrator of the Universe" being but two).<br /><br />This was once explained to me by an EO convert (who insists that the Latin Church has invalid orders, is heretical, and strictly speaking no longer exists as part of the Universal Church) by claiming that the Eastern patriarches never took all their titles seriously, unlike Rome....https://www.blogger.com/profile/04611694996611765479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-28155549549063416812011-08-26T11:26:35.625+01:002011-08-26T11:26:35.625+01:00Your history of French Catholicism is most enlight...Your history of French Catholicism is most enlightening Father. Thank you - I look forward to more.<br /><br />Your comments regarding Gallicanism are interesting especially your comment that it still may exist. I attended some 'catechese' talks recently in France and could not help noticing that several times the expression 'Eglise DE France' was used rather than 'l'eglise EN France.' This made me feel rather uncomfortable but presumed it was because I was English and obviously the Church of England has a different connotation. However following your post perhaps it is another form of Gallicanism?pelerinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-89035778287366905302011-08-26T08:24:43.717+01:002011-08-26T08:24:43.717+01:00Bedwere—
Lovely to hear from you! My greetings to ...Bedwere—<br />Lovely to hear from you! My greetings to the brethren.<br />I think that one has to admit that the Easterners have at least some of a point. Take 'Filioque', for instance. It is likely that its admission to the Creed in the West was due to Carolingian pressure on the Holy See. This has considerably muddied the waters, for the East, who seem to have held the doctrine beforehand, since have come to reject it, probably in protest at the West's rather high-handed inclusion of it.<br />But I also think that Constantinople's overweening ambition to overtop the Papacy (with almost no justification, apostolic, historical or patristic) was a major contributory factor. Popes and Patriarchs of C could both be arrogant, but C could really only justify its claim to supremacy on the basis of being the Emperor's city. The most egregious example of this hubris must be Michael Caerularius (/Kerularios) in the eleventh century, who openly despised the Emperor, largely for trying to heal the growing breach with the West, and eventually (after the schism, to which Michael had contributed substantially) deposed him. Much of this was about personalities; Cardinal Humbert, the Papal legate was hardly a model of tact, either, and his 1054 excommunication was invalid in any case, since the Pope had recently died, thus ending his legatine status.<br />What I mean is that, in my opinion, there is no point trying to whitewash things. The East have real objections, and they deserve to be given proper weight, but they also are still far slower than the West to recognize that a proportion of the fault is on their side.<br /><br />You know, I think we need a proper post on this stuff soon!Pastor in Montehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949810648656544072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-51927279084686808912011-08-25T23:41:15.341+01:002011-08-25T23:41:15.341+01:00Father,
I really think you need to develop these e...Father,<br />I really think you need to develop these excellent analyses and weave them into your next book!geoffthecathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10369429031402685601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807826652341078989.post-5647805852739291832011-08-25T22:22:24.469+01:002011-08-25T22:22:24.469+01:00Father, what do you answer to those Eastern Orthod...Father, what do you answer to those Eastern Orthodox who claim that the division between East and West was due to the Frank theologians who introduced barbaric elements intro Christian thought? Has anybody bothered to repeal these accusations?bedwerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339741971886945010noreply@blogger.com